Battling on...
I strongly advise you to test the pH reactions of the threads  
(samples) as there may be a significant difference which should be  
helpful in fixing or releasing. Presumably the dyes in question are  
early synthetic dyes. See these articles:

	Scharff, A.B., 'Synthetic dyestuffs for textiles and their fastness  
to washing', ICOM CC,12 triennial meeting, Lyon: 	preprints Vol. II,  
ed. J. Bridgeland, James & James, London (1999) 654-660

	Barnett, J.C., 'Synthetic organic dyes, an introductory literature  
review of their use and related issues in conservation', 	Reviews in  
Conservation, IIC, London, nr. 8, 2007, pp. 67-77

You could also try isopropyl alcohol to move the dye stain. This would  
also affect the dye on the threads so a vaccuum table/suction disc  
would be required.

Or you could use cyclododecane to mask off the threads while the  
woollen fond is being treated.

	Scharff, A.B. 'The use of cyclododecane for the fixing of bleeding  
dyes on paper and textiles: a critical evaluation of 	application  
methods', Dyes in History and Archaeology, 19, (2000) 149-148

Yet another thing to consider is the effect of losing more dye from  
the thread, provided it can be rinsed away or encouraged to deposit  
somewhere else. This is not always as bad as it seems when there is no  
apparent loss in colour afterwards. It is a risk. Would some colour  
loss be more or less acceptable than dye stains?

That's it as far as my memory banks are concerned.

Best wishes and good luck!

Jennifer






On 26 Jun 2010, at 16:47, Kate Sahmel wrote:

> Thanks Jennifer- this sounds like a great method to try in the future
> for cleaning samplers with just slight dye bleed in water.
> Unfortunately, the dye on the silk embroidery of this sampler still
> releases quite readily in water alone (although sadly not on the wool)
> which is why I haven't tested different pH solutions on the thread-
> I'm not sure that any difference would be clearly evident.  However,
> perhaps something to experiment with (on fiber samples) without any
> danger to the wool.
>
> Best,
> Kate
>
>
> On 6/26/10, Jennifer Barnett <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> Tricky. I have not had much experience with embroidery on wool  
>> which does
>> indeed limit the pH possibilities as far as treatment. You do not  
>> mention
>> whether pH tests were carried out on samples of thread to determine  
>> at which
>> (approx.) pH the dye runs. This is vital to know.
>>
>> Have you though of using a vaccuum table? Some do not like the  
>> appearance of
>> the finished result as the embroidery tends to stand up too much  
>> from the
>> fabric (strong suction on the fabric).
>>
>> I have had the experience of threads on a yellowed and lightly  
>> soiled 1940s
>> cotton sampler that tests showed ran in neutral detergents, acidic  
>> and
>> alkaline solutions and just a little in water alone. I was sharing a
>> workshop with a paper conservator and saw how paper was nearly  
>> always dried
>> between blotters that were sandwiched between thick woollen felt  
>> then topped
>> with a piece of multiplex wood with weights on top of the whole  
>> lot. This
>> was to maximise contact of the blotters with the paper object to  
>> pick any
>> migrating colouring matter and to ensure that it dried perfectly  
>> flat.
>>
>> Not having a vaccuum table at hand, I decided to 'wash' the sampler  
>> in water
>> with added CMC to prevent soil deposition, rinse thoroughly then  
>> dry it
>> using the paper object method (overnight). Fantastic result. The  
>> embroidery
>> was not flattened at all and there were no haloes of dye on the  
>> sampler,
>> only on the blotter, and then not so much. The weighting system  
>> retained the
>> shape of the sampler beautifully as well. While not as clean as it  
>> could be,
>> it looked refreshed and very natural, if that is the right word.  
>> Pinning out
>> and applying weighted glass plates always leave their marks on  
>> cellulose
>> based samplers. Pinning out wool would be a very delicate operation  
>> in any
>> case due to its stretchiness.
>>
>> This drying method also saved a lot of time (pinning, adjusting  
>> pinning as
>> it dries, hovering with hair dryer in hand), which, despite what  
>> many of my
>> old colleagues may still think, is an important consideration, even  
>> more so
>> in private practice. This notion became even more important during my
>> experience of working 18 years in the Netherlands where many owners  
>> of
>> samplers were outraged at the cost of treating 'a bit of old rag' or
>> 'something that didn't cost me anything'. End of short rant.
>>
>> Hope this helps in some way.
>>
>> Jennifer Barnett
>>
>> ex-textile conservator/lecturer
>> now translator Dutch-Eng and editor/proof-reader
>>
>> 'Tournebise'
>> La Goutte, rte de Dancé
>> FR -  Bully 42260
>> tel  +33 4 7765 2011
>> [log in to unmask]
>>
>> http:/www.proz.com/profile/847667
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 23 Jun 2010, at 20:53, Kate Sahmel wrote:
>>
>>> I am working on a 19th century English sampler with silk  
>>> embroidery on
>>> a wool ground.  The sampler is in good/fair condition, but there is
>>> extensive dye bleed into the wool ground, mostly from the green and
>>> dark pink silk embroidery threads.  Testing has shown that the dye  
>>> is
>>> still fugitive on the green silk thread, but so far none of the
>>> aqueous solutions tested moves the dye on the wool.
>>>
>>> I am considering trying to raise the pH slightly to see if that  
>>> helps
>>> to release the dye, but I am not sure how much I can raise the pH
>>> without damaging the fibers.  Unfortunately the dye bleed has likely
>>> been there a long time (40 years?), but I would still like to try a
>>> few more things before giving up.  Has anyone had success with
>>> removing dye bleed on wool?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Kate Sahmel
>>> Andrew W. Mellon Fellow in Costume and Textiles Conservation
>>> Philadelphia Museum of Art
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> 215-684-7578
>>>
>>