Jon, When objects change inventory number and status in this way (moving from exhibition loan to long loan to aquisition) we rely on audit trail, alternate numbers, acquisition related constituents and the loan record to 'deduce' the history of the work. We don't retain historic credit lines. Because TMS exports collection and long loan data to the internal staff intranet, the most persistent problem we face is when the public announcement of the acquistion of a work that is already on long loan to the Gallery is delayed until some months after it has been accessioned. We are obliged to change the number etc of the work on TMS as soon as acquisition is complete in order to satisfy our auditors but we must also continue to export details of the work to the intranet because it is on display in the Gallery as a long loan. So we display a prominent warning on the intranet that the fact of acquisition must remain confidential until the press announcement etc. However, we will soon be exporting to public facing systems, and will have to find a different way to resolve the problem. In Exibition module we record loan/venue status using strict syntax in Remarks field on the Object tab. Then we run several very brief progress reports which quickly summarise the whole exhibition, extracting loan/venue status from Remarks and tucking 'rejected' loan candidates out of sight at the end of the report. (This practice dates from TMS V8.11 but we plan to start using status field as soon as we find time to rewrite the many reports based on Remarks field.) Rejected or candidate loans can also be identified because they are numbered with a NONE prefix until all loans are finalised, when those that are definite are changed to X prefixed numbers (usually in a sequential block of numbers that is indentified with that exhibition). However users also record another number for each work linked to an exhibition (prefixed W and stored in the Case No field) that is used solely for continuity in the progress reports. I guess there is no perfect way of doing these things! Gillian Essam Collection Information Manager The National Gallery Trafalgar Square London WC2N 5DN tel: 020 7747 2543 fax: 020 7747 2472 email: [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Thristan [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: 29 September 2004 18:25 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Object records Thanks, Sue. Always good to know that others have the same/similar issues! I'd imagine that most museums and galleries (probably more the case for galleries?) that acquire and borrow objects encounter the situation where an Object is first borrowed and then acquired and consequently where its corresponding Object record requires a new number and corresponding object status (this rather than creating duplicate Object records). It would be good to be able to record both an alternate (i.e. 'historical') number and a related 'historical' object status. Re temporary works, we also discussed having a location authority of 'not applicable' and including information about the object's temporary status in the object's description. I'd not thought of xref'd 'destroyed' constituent - another option to consider :-) Jon -----Original Message----- From: Susan Garton [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: 29 September 2004 17:38 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Object records Jon, NPG has confronted each one of your issues. We enter objects with PA/NPG numbers when they are "Pending Acquisitions." If they are accessioned, they get NPG numbers, and if they are rejected, they go into the department of the Catalog of American Portraits and get CAP numbers. Either way, the PA number goes into Altenate Numbers. If accessioned, the Object Status becomes "Accessioned object," and if rejected, it becomes "Rejected." Returned loans (Both long term and exhibition loans) also go into the CAP department, and the former loans status is reflected in the Object Status field, which becomes "Returned loan." We have begun entering former credt lines as text entries. Our biggest problem seems to be (like yours) when something has more than one Object Status, like "Accessioned object" and "Returned loan." We try to clarifiy using text fields such as Notes, Curatorial Remarks and Provenance, and the Location History is also very helpful. It is definitely difficult to make hard-and-fast rules as to how to handle these. For objects that no longer exist (similar to the temporary object case you mentioned,) we have a constituent record called "Destroyed" that is the object's Current Owner. But it seems more logical to record it in Object Status. We may begin recording it there as well--we entered it as a constituent only because every object we enter is supposed to have a Current Owner (because of the CAP.) As for Exhibition Object Statuses, we do use them, not only for objects that are "Dropped" from an exhibition, but as of recently, also for the status of exhibition prep work like conservation, photography, matting, framing, etc. These statuses were added so that reports could be generated for the people involved in the prep work, and so far, it is working well. We also have some marketing and publicity-related statuses like "Pitch book image" and "Press packet image." Back to the recycling objects issue, I think you are right about training being important. Because it is difficult to be perfectly clear and consistent, users have to know where to look for things. We try to keep things from falling through the cracks with queries, but those doing the querying also have to be pretty crafty. Sue Susan Foster Garton Data Administrator Center for Electronic Research and Outreach Services National Portrait Gallery Tel: (202) 275-1842 Fax: (202) 275-1907 [log in to unmask] >>> [log in to unmask] 09/29/04 11:12AM >>> Hello everyone! Has anyone encountered problems 're-using' Object records? The sort of thing I'm thinking of is related to 'alternate' numbers. For example, where an object was a long loan in, with an 'L' pre-fixed Object record number, was returned to it's lender and then borrowed again, re-using the Object record, but with a new 'X' pre-fixed number assigned. Our users are concerned that it's not immediately apparent that a short-term loan was once a long-loan and they're also not keen on over-writing credit lines where this is the case. On the latter I've suggested that we could store previous credit lines as a text-entry and for the former, create a status flag indicating that an Object has an alternate number - or more explicitly that an Object has changed it's status at some point - for example 'previously long-loan'?. Maybe it's a training issue? One thing that has occurred is that it would be useful if the Object Number quick search feature searched all object numbers for an Object. It would also be useful if 'alternate numbers' could be included in use defined forms. Also, we're not sure how to proceed cataloguing 'temporary' objects e.g. a wall painting created for a specific exhibition and then painted over so that, in effect, they no longer exist. Create an object status; a status flag; record via a location? Something else? How have you tackled these sorts of objects? A final query... does anybody else use the Object status on the Exhibition record to record whether an Object is agreed/declined/provisional for a given Exhibition? Any problems/thoughts? We have written reports summarising Exhibition records that include/exclude Objects based on the value of the Object status and that also provide details of the Object status - useful where an object is provisionally agreed (this can't be done with the yes/no included/excluded windows on the exhibition record). But users still tend to want the list of Objects visible on the Objects tab to be the actual Objects in the exhibition and to simply delete Objects not in the exhibition - which loses the information about them having been considered, but subsequently rejected/declined etc.. More training?! :-) Thanks Jon Tate Millbank London SW1P 4RG t: +44 (0) 20 7887 8983 e: [log in to unmask] w: www.tate.org.uk ========================================================== Book Now: Raphael: From Urbino to Rome 20 October 2004 - 16 January 2005 Open until 9pm every Wednesday with live music & bar http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/exhibitions/raphael/default.htm Sign up for the latest news, offers and exclusive competitions from the National Gallery by clicking on this link http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/what/news/subscribe.htm