David - thank you so much for sending this article - This is the type of discussion I've been dying to have with colleagues - I'm so glad that someone is addressing the larger issues of standards, access, and sustainable efforts in a formal paper (thanks Murtha and Erin!). Issues about field, formatting, thesauri, and data exchange standards in the museum field is not a new discussion, but opinions are still changing and ideas being mostly vetted even to this day, much less being formally adopted by the larger community (what ever happened to the idea of adopting CIMI's best practice for Dublin Core??). Obviously, we still have a lot of work to do. This article begins a much needed discussion. So, in answer to your original question (which I intended to answer today at some point), what you might consider is that you need cataloguing / meta data staff. Part of my job (the most time consuming part, after I set up the system according to best practice and available standards in the first place) is to catalogue the collection and make sure that the information is entered into the database according to standards which facilitate access, and make sure that the data is consistent. Other, more knowledgeable people on staff (curatorial staff) add to the "content" at this point, mainly by sending me text panel information and other historical information about the object, including information about dates and subjects. I make sure the content is put in the correct fields in the object record, and that the correct links are maintained. It works for now - I haven't heard any complaints, and people seem to be finding what they need. But I am only one person, needing additional help desperately. The collection is vast, and cataloguing is time consuming. We still haven't even tackled getting the data on-line, which is coming, and is also a fairly stressful prospect, as so much work still needs to be done, and we haven't even addressed additional staffing needs. Anyway, depending on how your institution is structured, and depending on who is already doing what in the system - a cataloguing position may or may not be an easy sell. But, the article you sent outlines the issues brilliantly - so perhaps you should send it to your director/manager. It may help you make the case. Good luck! Allison .................................................................. .................................................................. the warhol: Allison A. Smith Collection Manager / Database Administrator 117 Sandusky Street Pittsburgh, PA 15212 T 412.237.8345 F 412.237.8340 E [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> W www.warhol.org <http://www.warhol.org> W www.warholstore.com <http://www.warholstore.com> Email newsletter http://members.carnegiemuseums.org/email Membership http://members.carnegiemuseums.org/SupportCMP The Andy Warhol Museum One of the four Carnegie Museums of Pittsburgh .................................................................. .................................................................. They always say that time changes things, but you actually have to change them yourself -- Andy Warhol .................................................................. .................................................................. -----Original Message----- From: The Museum System (TMS) Users [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Aylsworth, David Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 12:13 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Data Standards Manager Thanks to both of you for responding so intelligently. It could be that I'm feeling overwhelmed by the challenge of both getting TMS more and more functional as well as trying to define the standards at the same time, but I still see there being justification for both positions. Someone sent me this article from the Getty that got my juices flowing that such an extravagance could be justified... http://www.asis.org/Bulletin/Jun-04/coburn_baca.html But then again, I could be deluding myself... It seems like I go through this every year about this time.... until the budgets come out and I see what got scratched off of my list! But, thanks again. David David Aylsworth Museum of Fine Arts, Houston Registrar for Collections telephone: 713-639-7824 fax: 713-639-7780 -----Original Message----- From: The Museum System (TMS) Users [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Chad Petrovay Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 7:40 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Data Standards Manager I'm the Collections Database Administrator, so I oversee the functionality of TMS, and am involved with almost every project that takes advantage of the data in the database. One of my first tasks was to create standards for the data, and while I do agree with David that the task is pretty front end - it's never quite done. Example: We created a very thorough geography labeling system. Places that no longer exist like Ur would be labeled as 'Ur (in present-day Iraq)' while modern locales would be 'Paris, France'. The labels are generated by the computer when being exported to the web, and take advantage of the city, country, region, locus field. I thought I had my ground covered, but there are a hundred exceptions. Each exception requires a revision of the standards. Secondly, new standards are being adopted all the time. If you aligned your standards to CCO and CDWAlite, what happens when museumDat is revealed? This requires monitoring developments in the field, as well as alterations to TMS's data structure during upgrades. So, downtime yes, but someone still needs to do the monitoring. Finally, there is monitoring the data within TMS for quality control. We have a lot of curators, fellows, etc, who have access to TMS because they are working on advancing the research and academic knowledge of our collection. They are not always as conscious of the standards as they should be, and so we monitor their alterations to make sure that they comply with our standards, make necessary alterations, and when, necessitated, "interventions." At the end of the day, that's a lot to do, but as I am responsible for the data that is in TMS, and how it is extracted, I am happy to have that oversight of both the database and the standards. But I wouldn't be able to do it without dedicated support staff. My two cents. ~Chad -----Original Message----- From: The Museum System (TMS) Users on behalf of David Armstrong Sent: Tue 4/29/2008 6:51 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Data Standards Manager The question that initially comes to my mind is, "What will the Data Standards Manager do after the standards are developed and put in place?" It seems like the data standards manager position is simply an initial job responsibility for the TMS administrator. For what it's worth, my title is Database Administrator and I'm in charge of all the databases at my institution. I spent the first year getting TMS in shape and it is pretty well sorted out. Now I'm working on integrating it with a Digital Asset Management System. I'm also working on setting up a new ticketing system that will integrate with our current membership system. It has been my experience that although getting TMS setup and running right takes a lot of effort at first, once you have it setup it pretty much runs itself. The hard work is developing the standards, developing the reports and developing the training materials so that the users are comfortable using it. Once you've done that it just like any other application. ________________________________ From: The Museum System (TMS) Users [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Aylsworth, David Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 3:42 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Data Standards Manager I am very interested in hearing from any institutions that have a Data Standards Manager as part of their staff. I'm trying to push through getting BOTH a TMS Administrator as well as a Data Standards Manager. Admittedly they would work together very closely, but I've begun thinking that it is justifiable to have a separate person who can hash out the standards for our institution and see that they come into line with other institutions, letting the TMS Administrator focus on the functionality of the system. Am I dreaming too big or too small? How does such a person start? How much of a Nazi do they need to be? Any advice or comments would be appreciated... Thanks, David David Aylsworth Museum of Fine Arts, Houston Registrar for Collections telephone: 713-639-7824 fax: 713-639-7780