We use nationality independent of object culture, though with known artists, we leave the object culture field blank as the assumption is the culture of the object is the culture/nationality of the maker. There are some exceptions for this, but generally, we count on the object geography to cover the details. We use the pick-list search for Nationality also; it simplifies things for users but slightly complicates things for me. This dual-nationality is definitely an artist-by-artist decision for us, and distinguished from the "born in" and "active in" that we use elsewhere--I wanted an alternative to that and now I have it! I think "American and French" is most straightforward and accurate in this particular case. I shall celebrate the word "and" like I'm on Sesame Street. Thanks everyone for the input; I knew I could count on you guys to have my back! ______________________ Jessica Milby TMS Systems Manager Philadelphia Museum of Art Phone: 215-684-7283 Fax: 215-235-0035 [log in to unmask] ________________________________ From: The Museum System (TMS) Users [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ryan Donahue Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 4:56 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: dual-nationality If you're not going to be doing anything but duplicating the contents of nationality in the culture field, you probably ought not be doing it then. Essentially, you're de-normalizing the data.. Something one should avoid doing unless performance reasons dictate it. Sure, the culture may be the same as the nationality of the maker in 99% of the cases, but if, by your business rules, it has to, then problems can arise based on that assumption. (There's also no easy way to enforce that rule, outside of customizations). Different fields, same domain (likely), different values. All of this, of course, IMO. Ryan Donahue Manager of Information Systems George Eastman House International Museum of Photography and Film [log in to unmask] 585.271.3361 ex386 On Aug 31, 2009, at 4:41 PM, Aylsworth, David wrote: We use the past tense version "American, born Sweden", and try to be fairly consistent with it. But I've got a related question: Does this affect what you consider to be the culture of the object, then? We made an almost arbitrary decision that the culture of the object had to match the nationality of the artist. We use the geography fields to denote where the object was made. Alfred Stieglitz only makes "American" objects, even when he has taken pictures in France This hasn't been completely satisfactory, as we have British photographers who have worked all of their lives in Japan, but who have maintained their British nationality. Should these be considered "British" pictures or "Japanese"? Putting "British and Japanese" as the culture seems a little strange. David From: The Museum System (TMS) Users [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Moxley, Jeri Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 3:37 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: dual-nationality Our standards include both options, on an artist-by-artist basis, regularly reviewed for consistency by my department, and reviewed by curatorial chiefs once or twice a year. For example, we have both: American, born Sweden American and Swedish Jeri Jeri Moxley Manager, Collection and Exhibition Technologies Collection Management and Exhibition Registration The Museum of Modern Art 11 West 53 Street, New York, NY 10019-5497 Tel. (212) 708-9599 Fax. (212) 333-1102 From: The Museum System (TMS) Users [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Milby, Jessica Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 4:24 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: dual-nationality Hi folks...apologies if we've covered this recently... Has anyone determined a standard for recording the nationality for artists who are citizens of two countries and need to be noted as such? We usually say for instance "American (born France)" but I have an inquiry from a curator wanting the artist's display name to include a dual nationality without the pesky past tense. Thanks, Jessica ______________________ Jessica Milby TMS Systems Manager Philadelphia Museum of Art Phone: 215-684-7283 Fax: 215-235-0035 [log in to unmask]