Jennie - would the Z39.50 plug in work for us. It would be a big help? Thanks, Kay -----Original Message----- From: The Museum System (TMS) Users [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Delmas-Glass, Emmanuelle Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 10:36 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Who is responsible for data entry rules at the Getty Museum? Gillian, At the Yale Center for British Art we have been using the Z39.50 plug-in to ingest a "light version" of our library system's records. The goal is not to recreate full fledged bibliographic records in TMS but enough to be able to produce full and brief citations. The reasons we use the Z39.50 plug-in is that, as Brenda has alluded earlier, David Parsell has been able to make it work for us, AND we wanted to speed up the creation of bib. records in TMS (i.e. we wanted to stay away from having to retype everything). I did run into the issue you are mentioning about historical names but, for the most part, bibliography related constituents (authors, publishers and editors) and object related constituents (artists) are not the same people, with the big exception of institutional authors and publishers of course. To palliate this problem I enter all known versions of their names as alternate names in their constituents authority records and have compromised with our reference librarian (whose staff is building the TMS bib. records) to use only the latest version/contemporary names of these constituents with dual roles. This is just a stop gap solution while waiting for the next version of TMS which, I have been told by Gallery Systems, will allow to choose a constituent's alternate name as the primary name in a bib. record. I have put all of this in writing in 3 data entry manuals for the creation of citations for bibliographic materials, serials and sales catalogues. I have found that the hardest thing though is to map one's library systems's schema to TMS. Let me know if you are interested in seeing these. Best, Emmanuelle ________________________________________ From: The Museum System (TMS) Users [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Essam, Gillian [[log in to unmask]] Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 10:11 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Who is responsible for data entry rules at the Getty Museum? Hi Brenda and Cathryn, Thank you so much for your responses; they have given me much food for thought and I'm relieved to find that I have understood the Getty's data standard correctly! I understand and appreciate Brenda's warnings about possible duplication due to poor control of names in a free text field and restrictions on formatting. On the other hand I feel with Cathryn that perhaps it will not be necessary to duplicate in TMS the detailed cataloguing that our library system will capture in the next few years. Eventually I would hope that we could integrate the two systems, but in the meantime I would like to capture and publish bibliography online within a reasonable timeframe. The Getty's standard does indeed seem like a useful step in the right direction. Do any TMS users experience problems in sharing the Constituent Module for people and organisations that play many different roles in the data? For example, if an institution that has had many historic name changes is required in various historic forms by curators as the publisher of an exhibition catalogue in the Bibliographic Module and the historic venue of an exhibition in Exhibition Module, but is also required in its latest form by registrars as a current borrower name in the Loan Module, how are these conflicts prevented and resolved? Are names that have been signed off by a curator for use in the cataloguing record liable to be updated later by registrars or exhibition organisers for current borrowing or lending procedures? Kind regards, Gillian -----Original Message----- From: The Museum System (TMS) Users [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Cathryn Goodwin Sent: 21 October 2009 02:51 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Who is responsible for data entry rules at the Getty Museum? if it is of interest - we have been very grateful for the Getty's abbreviated bib record guidelines here at Princeton. Because we aren't really in the business of cataloguing books, and hope to someday manage a connection between our citation records and an authoritative bibliography record, we are capturing isbn numbers, local princeton library call numbers, etc with an eye to the future. We are also seriously considering co-opting some of the TMS bib record fields to help manage rights and repro transactions - which more often than not result in citations for works in our collection. Hopefully this will lead to a more transaction-based bibliographic history of the collection. Cathryn -----Original Message----- From: The Museum System (TMS) Users on behalf of Brenda Podemski Sent: Tue 10/20/2009 7:52 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Who is responsible for data entry rules at the Getty Museum? Hi Gillian, Although you have it correct that our current data entry process currently limits our Bibliography entries to a small handful of fields in the Bib. module (the aforementioned title, format, date, language, year published, and data entry constituents), I cannot really recommend this as a standard. These are legacy procedures that were instituted to wean users away from the big free-text Bibliography field in the Objects module, so the impetus (I believe) was to make the data entry as simple as possible for cataloging staff to use while still taking advantage of the Bibliography module's ability to link a single publication to multiple objects. Some of the problems with this approach: - The Title field is only 255 characters long. It is not too difficult to exceed this limit citations with multiple authors, publisher details, and long titles. - Dumping all the data into one field limits our ability to selectively format aspects of the citation (you could use the Citation field for this, of course, but it does mean people would need to add the data twice) - Author names are entered manually within the free-text Title field, with no controls on the format of those names. This increases the likelihood of accidental duplicate citation entries due to typos, abbreviations, or name variants. We have continued to use our old standards because we'd like a better way to do the detailed data entry robust bibliography entries would require, and would prefer tapping into the already plentiful online resources that have done the data entry for us! We are looking at the z39.50 plugin as a possible alternative to that end (with serious props to David Parsell @YCBA for paving the way here). That said, I do believe our current practice is a definite step in the right direction, away from the Published References field. Best regards, Brenda ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~ Brenda Podemski Business Applications Administrator Collections Information The J. Paul Getty Museum www.getty.edu v. +1 310-440-7087 | f. +1 310-440-7752 | e. [log in to unmask] >>> "Essam, Gillian" <[log in to unmask]> 10/20/2009 1:58 AM >>> Hi Brenda, Thank you for your prompt response, and thank you also to other kind users who pointed me in the right direction! I was going to ask my questions off-list, but it may be that other people have an interest in this too. At the National Gallery, London, we are planning to capture bibliographic citations in TMS, mainly for publication to our website. I surveyed CDWA standard and data entry rules in use by a few other TMS users, among them the Getty's "Adding/Updating Bibliographic Citations" January 23 2002. Your standard appealed to me because it seems not to build full bibliographic records in TMS, just citations for publication. This may well suit us as we plan also to build full bibliographic records in a new library system over the next few years, and probably to integrate it with TMS eventually. Although we would like to achieve some granularity in bibliographic data in TMS by using the Bibliography Module rather than the Bibliography or Published Reference fields in Object Module, we would prefer to enter minimal data and in particular to avoid swamping TMS Constituents with authors and publishers. May I check that I have understood your standard properly? On "General Info" tab what do you enter in 'Title Proper' field - is it simply author and title? Who do you link under 'Constituents'- is it only the person who added the citation, or do you also link authors and publishers etc? Many thanks, Gillian Gillian Essam Collection Information Manager The National Gallery Trafalgar Square London WC2N 5DN Tel: +44 (0)20 7747 5243 Fax: +44 (0)20 7747 2472 -----Original Message----- From: The Museum System (TMS) Users [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Brenda Podemski Sent: 19 October 2009 17:32 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Who is responsible for data entry rules at the Getty Museum? Hi Gillian, I would be happy to assist you! (and I just replied to you directly as well). Best, Brenda ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~ Brenda Podemski Business Applications Administrator Collections Information The J. Paul Getty Museum www.getty.edu v. +1 310-440-7087 | f. +1 310-440-7752 | e. [log in to unmask] >>> "Essam, Gillian" <[log in to unmask]> 10/16/2009 2:35 AM >>> Please does anyone have a name and email address for the person who is responsible for the data standards and data entry rules for TMS at the Getty Museum? I would like to ask a few questions by email (off listserv) regarding the Getty's helpful "Adding_Bibliography.doc" , currently posted under "User Shared Resources" on Gallery Systems' website. Kind regards, Gillian Gillian Essam Collection Information Manager The National Gallery Trafalgar Square London WC2N 5DN Tel: +44 (0)20 7747 5243 Fax: +44 (0)20 7747 2472 ---------------------------------------------------------------- The Sacred Made Real: Spanish Painting and Sculpture 1600 - 1700 21 October 2009 - 24 January 2010 Book now http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/the-sacred-made-real Open daily 10am to 6pm, Friday until 9pm Sign up for the latest news, offers and exclusive competitions from the National Gallery by clicking on this link http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/subscribe/subscribe-to-e-news ---------------------------------------------------------------- The Sacred Made Real: Spanish Painting and Sculpture 1600 - 1700 21 October 2009 - 24 January 2010 Book now http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/the-sacred-made-real Open daily 10am to 6pm, Friday until 9pm Sign up for the latest news, offers and exclusive competitions from the National Gallery by clicking on this link http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/subscribe/subscribe-to-e-news ---------------------------------------------------------------- The Sacred Made Real: Spanish Painting and Sculpture 1600 - 1700 21 October 2009 - 24 January 2010 Book now http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/the-sacred-made-real Open daily 10am to 6pm, Friday until 9pm Sign up for the latest news, offers and exclusive competitions from the National Gallery by clicking on this link http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/subscribe/subscribe-to-e-news