Similar to Dieter, we are going with an Object-related Constituent Xref Role = 'depicted' (just that more general term; it would cover portrait subjects as well) and an Ex-Collection Constituent Xref Role = 'associated'. We are using the Geography Xref Types = 'associated' and 'depicted' (as well as 'origin'), too. Frances On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 4:00 PM, TMSUSERS automatic digest system < [log in to unmask]> wrote: > There are 7 messages totaling 7570 lines in this issue. > > Topics of the day: > > 1. identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through > constituent > xref (7) > > To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the > following commands in the body of the email: > > signoff TMSUSERS > > // eoj > > > You will receive a confirmation that your subscription has been removed. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 08:21:53 -0500 > From: Wilson Jarred <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through > constituent xref > > Hi all, > > I'm trying to wrap my head around an issue involving constituent xrefs on > object records. For sitters of portraits, we have utilized a role called > "Sitter" to link a constituent to the object record. We would like to do > something similar with people depicted (but who didn't necessarily model or > sit for a piece) in a photograph or poster. "Sitter" doesn't seem to work > well because, based on the Getty AAT definition< > http://www.getty.edu/vow/AATFullDisplay?find=sitter&logic=AND¬e=&page=1&subjectid=300189844>, > it relates very specifically to portrait and not to other visual works. I > am hesitant to call them the "Subject" because I think that term would get > confused with overall subject or genre of a painting (i.e. "allegory"). > > Has anyone used constituent xrefs in the object record to identify the > person depicted in a photograph? If so, what role have you used to do this? > If anyone has any insight which they could pass along, I would appreciate > it. Thanks in advance! > > Sincerely, > Jarred Wilson > Associate Registrar > > The John and Mable Ringling Museum of Art > 5401 Bay Shore Road > Sarasota, FL 34243 > > tel. 941-359-5700 x1504 > fax 941-359-7716 > www.ringling.org<http://www.ringling.org/> > > [cid:image002.jpg@01D050D4.1CA94AD0] > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the > following commands in the body of the email: > > signoff TMSUSERS > > // eoj > > > You will receive a confirmation that your subscription has been removed. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 13:26:00 +0000 > From: "Meissner, Elizabeth A - (meissner)" <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through > constituent xref > > We use Associated Person. > > Betsi Meissner > Registration > Center for Creative Photography > > Sent from my iPad > > On Feb 25, 2015, at 6:22 AM, Wilson Jarred <[log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: > > Hi all, > > I’m trying to wrap my head around an issue involving constituent xrefs on > object records. For sitters of portraits, we have utilized a role called > “Sitter” to link a constituent to the object record. We would like to do > something similar with people depicted (but who didn’t necessarily model or > sit for a piece) in a photograph or poster. “Sitter” doesn’t seem to work > well because, based on the Getty AAT definition< > http://www.getty.edu/vow/AATFullDisplay?find=sitter&logic=AND¬e=&page=1&subjectid=300189844>, > it relates very specifically to portrait and not to other visual works. I > am hesitant to call them the “Subject” because I think that term would get > confused with overall subject or genre of a painting (i.e. “allegory”). > > Has anyone used constituent xrefs in the object record to identify the > person depicted in a photograph? If so, what role have you used to do this? > If anyone has any insight which they could pass along, I would appreciate > it. Thanks in advance! > > Sincerely, > Jarred Wilson > Associate Registrar > > The John and Mable Ringling Museum of Art > 5401 Bay Shore Road > Sarasota, FL 34243 > > tel. 941-359-5700 x1504 > fax 941-359-7716 > www.ringling.org<http://www.ringling.org/> > > <image002.jpg> > > To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask]<mailto: > [log in to unmask]> with the following commands in the body of > the email: > > signoff TMSUSERS > > // eoj > > You will receive a confirmation that your subscription has been removed. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the > following commands in the body of the email: > > signoff TMSUSERS > > // eoj > > > You will receive a confirmation that your subscription has been removed. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 15:01:19 +0000 > From: "Morgan, Amber" <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through > constituent xref > > We have two roles that fall into this category, "subject depicted/about" > and "subject associated." I'm not a huge fan of either but that's what we > are using (for now). Personally I think it's unclear what the difference > is between the two or how they are supposed to be used. > > We also make use of the suffix field. The subject of a portrait would > have a role of "subject depicted/about" with a suffix of "depicted." The > suffix is what most people will see, so even though the roles are a little > vague, the suffix clarifies it. I'm not saying this is the best way of > doing this, but we've been going with this and it's worked out for the most > part. I'd be really interested to see what terms other museums are using > for the role for depicted constituents. > > > [cid:image001.png@01D050E1.BED18450] > > Best regards, > Amber > > > the warhol: > Amber E. Morgan > Collections Manager > 117 Sandusky Street > Pittsburgh, PA 15212 > T 412.237.8306 > F 412.237.8340 > E [log in to unmask] > W www.warhol.org<http://www.warhol.org/> > The Andy Warhol Museum > One of the four Carnegie Museums of Pittsburgh > Email newsletter http://members.carnegiemuseums.org/email > Membership http://members.carnegiemuseums.org/SupportCMP > warhol: facebook<http://www.facebook.com/thewarholmuseum> | warhol: > twitter<http://www.twitter.com/thewarholmuseum> > > > > From: The Museum System (TMS) Users [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > On Behalf Of Meissner, Elizabeth A - (meissner) > Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 8:26 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through > constituent xref > > We use Associated Person. > > Betsi Meissner > Registration > Center for Creative Photography > > Sent from my iPad > > On Feb 25, 2015, at 6:22 AM, Wilson Jarred <[log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm trying to wrap my head around an issue involving constituent xrefs on > object records. For sitters of portraits, we have utilized a role called > "Sitter" to link a constituent to the object record. We would like to do > something similar with people depicted (but who didn't necessarily model or > sit for a piece) in a photograph or poster. "Sitter" doesn't seem to work > well because, based on the Getty AAT definition< > http://www.getty.edu/vow/AATFullDisplay?find=sitter&logic=AND¬e=&page=1&subjectid=300189844>, > it relates very specifically to portrait and not to other visual works. I > am hesitant to call them the "Subject" because I think that term would get > confused with overall subject or genre of a painting (i.e. "allegory"). > > Has anyone used constituent xrefs in the object record to identify the > person depicted in a photograph? If so, what role have you used to do this? > If anyone has any insight which they could pass along, I would appreciate > it. Thanks in advance! > > Sincerely, > Jarred Wilson > Associate Registrar > > The John and Mable Ringling Museum of Art > 5401 Bay Shore Road > Sarasota, FL 34243 > > tel. 941-359-5700 x1504 > fax 941-359-7716 > www.ringling.org<http://www.ringling.org/> > > <image002.jpg> > > To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask]<mailto: > [log in to unmask]> with the following commands in the body of > the email: > > signoff TMSUSERS > > // eoj > > You will receive a confirmation that your subscription has been removed. > To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask]<mailto: > [log in to unmask]> with the following commands in the body of > the email: > > signoff TMSUSERS > > // eoj > > You will receive a confirmation that your subscription has been removed. > > > > The information contained in this message and/or attachments is intended > only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, > dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, > this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient > is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete the material from any system and destroy any copies. Any views > expressed in this message are those of the individual sender. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the > following commands in the body of the email: > > signoff TMSUSERS > > // eoj > > > You will receive a confirmation that your subscription has been removed. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 16:09:33 +0000 > From: Gabriela Zoller <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through > constituent xref > > We use depicts (object - person/place) and depicted in (person/place - > object) > > Best, > Gabriela > > Gabriela Zoller > Acting Head of Research Resources / Art Collection Cataloger > Department of Research Resources > Albright-Knox Art Gallery > 1285 Elmwood Avenue > Buffalo, New York 14222 > 716.270.8277 (ph) > [log in to unmask] > > From: The Museum System (TMS) Users [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > On Behalf Of Wilson Jarred > Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 8:22 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through > constituent xref > > Hi all, > > I'm trying to wrap my head around an issue involving constituent xrefs on > object records. For sitters of portraits, we have utilized a role called > "Sitter" to link a constituent to the object record. We would like to do > something similar with people depicted (but who didn't necessarily model or > sit for a piece) in a photograph or poster. "Sitter" doesn't seem to work > well because, based on the Getty AAT definition< > http://www.getty.edu/vow/AATFullDisplay?find=sitter&logic=AND¬e=&page=1&subjectid=300189844>, > it relates very specifically to portrait and not to other visual works. I > am hesitant to call them the "Subject" because I think that term would get > confused with overall subject or genre of a painting (i.e. "allegory"). > > Has anyone used constituent xrefs in the object record to identify the > person depicted in a photograph? If so, what role have you used to do this? > If anyone has any insight which they could pass along, I would appreciate > it. Thanks in advance! > > Sincerely, > Jarred Wilson > Associate Registrar > > The John and Mable Ringling Museum of Art > 5401 Bay Shore Road > Sarasota, FL 34243 > > tel. 941-359-5700 x1504 > fax 941-359-7716 > www.ringling.org<http://www.ringling.org/> > > [TheRingling_iconsTOP_fsu] > > To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask]<mailto: > [log in to unmask]> with the following commands in the body of > the email: > > signoff TMSUSERS > > // eoj > > You will receive a confirmation that your subscription has been removed. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the > following commands in the body of the email: > > signoff TMSUSERS > > // eoj > > > You will receive a confirmation that your subscription has been removed. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 16:40:06 +0000 > From: "Timko, Merrianne" <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through > constituent xref > > Some works (e.g., photographs) in our collection include ten or more > "identified" individuals. Other works may be associated with an individual > (e.g., a silver piece presented to an historical figure). > > We are temporarily "parking" information in two flex fields, pending > future development of subject cataloguing. These fields are: > > Associated with > Person depicted > > Merrianne Timko > Data Standards Manager > > The Museum of Fine Arts, Houston > PO Box 6826 Houston, Texas 77265-6826 > 713.353.1523 Office > > > From: The Museum System (TMS) Users [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > On Behalf Of Gabriela Zoller > Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 10:10 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through > constituent xref > > We use depicts (object - person/place) and depicted in (person/place - > object) > > Best, > Gabriela > > Gabriela Zoller > Acting Head of Research Resources / Art Collection Cataloger > Department of Research Resources > Albright-Knox Art Gallery > 1285 Elmwood Avenue > Buffalo, New York 14222 > 716.270.8277 (ph) > [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> > > From: The Museum System (TMS) Users [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > On Behalf Of Wilson Jarred > Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 8:22 AM > To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> > Subject: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through > constituent xref > > Hi all, > > I'm trying to wrap my head around an issue involving constituent xrefs on > object records. For sitters of portraits, we have utilized a role called > "Sitter" to link a constituent to the object record. We would like to do > something similar with people depicted (but who didn't necessarily model or > sit for a piece) in a photograph or poster. "Sitter" doesn't seem to work > well because, based on the Getty AAT definition< > http://www.getty.edu/vow/AATFullDisplay?find=sitter&logic=AND¬e=&page=1&subjectid=300189844>, > it relates very specifically to portrait and not to other visual works. I > am hesitant to call them the "Subject" because I think that term would get > confused with overall subject or genre of a painting (i.e. "allegory"). > > Has anyone used constituent xrefs in the object record to identify the > person depicted in a photograph? If so, what role have you used to do this? > If anyone has any insight which they could pass along, I would appreciate > it. Thanks in advance! > > Sincerely, > Jarred Wilson > Associate Registrar > > The John and Mable Ringling Museum of Art > 5401 Bay Shore Road > Sarasota, FL 34243 > > tel. 941-359-5700 x1504 > fax 941-359-7716 > www.ringling.org<http://www.ringling.org/> > > [TheRingling_iconsTOP_fsu] > > To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask]<mailto: > [log in to unmask]> with the following commands in the body of > the email: > > signoff TMSUSERS > > // eoj > > You will receive a confirmation that your subscription has been removed. > To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask]<mailto: > [log in to unmask]> with the following commands in the body of > the email: > > signoff TMSUSERS > > // eoj > > You will receive a confirmation that your subscription has been removed. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the > following commands in the body of the email: > > signoff TMSUSERS > > // eoj > > > You will receive a confirmation that your subscription has been removed. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 19:13:28 +0000 > From: Van Hassel Dieter <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through > constituent xref > > We use a ConXref role "Depicted" for this. It works quite well, as some > of our depicted constituents are actually donors of objects, etc. > Similar, we have a Geography Xref "Place depicted", linked to our > Geographical Thesaurus. > > > Best regards, > Dieter > > > Dieter Van Hassel > > Archives & Collection Management > Royal Museum for Central Africa > 3080 Tervuren > Belgium > > http://www.africamuseum.be > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: The Museum System (TMS) Users [[log in to unmask]] on > behalf of Morgan, Amber [[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 4:07 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through > constituent xref > > We have two roles that fall into this category, “subject depicted/about” > and “subject associated.” I’m not a huge fan of either but that’s what we > are using (for now). Personally I think it’s unclear what the difference > is between the two or how they are supposed to be used. > > We also make use of the suffix field. The subject of a portrait would > have a role of “subject depicted/about” with a suffix of “depicted.” The > suffix is what most people will see, so even though the roles are a little > vague, the suffix clarifies it. I’m not saying this is the best way of > doing this, but we’ve been going with this and it’s worked out for the most > part. I’d be really interested to see what terms other museums are using > for the role for depicted constituents. > > > [cid:image001.png@01D050E1.BED18450] > > Best regards, > Amber > > > the warhol: > Amber E. Morgan > Collections Manager > 117 Sandusky Street > Pittsburgh, PA 15212 > T 412.237.8306 > F 412.237.8340 > E [log in to unmask] > W www.warhol.org<http://www.warhol.org/> > The Andy Warhol Museum > One of the four Carnegie Museums of Pittsburgh > Email newsletter http://members.carnegiemuseums.org/email > Membership http://members.carnegiemuseums.org/SupportCMP > warhol: facebook<http://www.facebook.com/thewarholmuseum> | warhol: > twitter<http://www.twitter.com/thewarholmuseum> > > > > From: The Museum System (TMS) Users [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > On Behalf Of Meissner, Elizabeth A - (meissner) > Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 8:26 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through > constituent xref > > We use Associated Person. > > Betsi Meissner > Registration > Center for Creative Photography > > Sent from my iPad > > On Feb 25, 2015, at 6:22 AM, Wilson Jarred <[log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: > Hi all, > > I’m trying to wrap my head around an issue involving constituent xrefs on > object records. For sitters of portraits, we have utilized a role called > “Sitter” to link a constituent to the object record. We would like to do > something similar with people depicted (but who didn’t necessarily model or > sit for a piece) in a photograph or poster. “Sitter” doesn’t seem to work > well because, based on the Getty AAT definition< > http://www.getty.edu/vow/AATFullDisplay?find=sitter&logic=AND¬e=&page=1&subjectid=300189844>, > it relates very specifically to portrait and not to other visual works. I > am hesitant to call them the “Subject” because I think that term would get > confused with overall subject or genre of a painting (i.e. “allegory”). > > Has anyone used constituent xrefs in the object record to identify the > person depicted in a photograph? If so, what role have you used to do this? > If anyone has any insight which they could pass along, I would appreciate > it. Thanks in advance! > > Sincerely, > Jarred Wilson > Associate Registrar > > The John and Mable Ringling Museum of Art > 5401 Bay Shore Road > Sarasota, FL 34243 > > tel. 941-359-5700 x1504 > fax 941-359-7716 > www.ringling.org<http://www.ringling.org/> > > <image002.jpg> > > To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask]<mailto: > [log in to unmask]> with the following commands in the body of > the email: > > signoff TMSUSERS > > // eoj > > You will receive a confirmation that your subscription has been removed. > To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask]<mailto: > [log in to unmask]> with the following commands in the body of > the email: > > signoff TMSUSERS > > // eoj > > You will receive a confirmation that your subscription has been removed. > > > > The information contained in this message and/or attachments is intended > only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, > dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, > this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient > is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete the material from any system and destroy any copies. Any views > expressed in this message are those of the individual sender. To > unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask]<mailto: > [log in to unmask]> with the following commands in the body of > the email: > > signoff TMSUSERS > > // eoj > > You will receive a confirmation that your subscription has been removed. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the > following commands in the body of the email: > > signoff TMSUSERS > > // eoj > > > You will receive a confirmation that your subscription has been removed. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 20:14:19 +0000 > From: "Garton, Susan" <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through > constituent xref > > Here at the Smithsonian National Portrait Gallery, we use the role > "Sitter" for any person depicted in an artwork. If an associated person is > not actually depicted (e.g. Abraham Lincoln's autograph), we use the role > "Associated Person". The NPG London seems to use only the roles "Sitter" > and "Artist" too. > > Sue Garton > Data Administrator > National Portrait Gallery > (202) 633-8554 | [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> > > From: The Museum System (TMS) Users [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > On Behalf Of Timko, Merrianne > Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 11:40 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through > constituent xref > > Some works (e.g., photographs) in our collection include ten or more > "identified" individuals. Other works may be associated with an individual > (e.g., a silver piece presented to an historical figure). > > We are temporarily "parking" information in two flex fields, pending > future development of subject cataloguing. These fields are: > > Associated with > Person depicted > > Merrianne Timko > Data Standards Manager > > The Museum of Fine Arts, Houston > PO Box 6826 Houston, Texas 77265-6826 > 713.353.1523 Office > > > From: The Museum System (TMS) Users [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > On Behalf Of Gabriela Zoller > Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 10:10 AM > To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through > constituent xref > > We use depicts (object - person/place) and depicted in (person/place - > object) > > Best, > Gabriela > > Gabriela Zoller > Acting Head of Research Resources / Art Collection Cataloger > Department of Research Resources > Albright-Knox Art Gallery > 1285 Elmwood Avenue > Buffalo, New York 14222 > 716.270.8277 (ph) > [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> > > From: The Museum System (TMS) Users [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > On Behalf Of Wilson Jarred > Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 8:22 AM > To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> > Subject: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through > constituent xref > > Hi all, > > I'm trying to wrap my head around an issue involving constituent xrefs on > object records. For sitters of portraits, we have utilized a role called > "Sitter" to link a constituent to the object record. We would like to do > something similar with people depicted (but who didn't necessarily model or > sit for a piece) in a photograph or poster. "Sitter" doesn't seem to work > well because, based on the Getty AAT definition< > http://www.getty.edu/vow/AATFullDisplay?find=sitter&logic=AND¬e=&page=1&subjectid=300189844>, > it relates very specifically to portrait and not to other visual works. I > am hesitant to call them the "Subject" because I think that term would get > confused with overall subject or genre of a painting (i.e. "allegory"). > > Has anyone used constituent xrefs in the object record to identify the > person depicted in a photograph? If so, what role have you used to do this? > If anyone has any insight which they could pass along, I would appreciate > it. Thanks in advance! > > Sincerely, > Jarred Wilson > Associate Registrar > > The John and Mable Ringling Museum of Art > 5401 Bay Shore Road > Sarasota, FL 34243 > > tel. 941-359-5700 x1504 > fax 941-359-7716 > www.ringling.org<http://www.ringling.org/> > > [TheRingling_iconsTOP_fsu] > > To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask]<mailto: > [log in to unmask]> with the following commands in the body of > the email: > > signoff TMSUSERS > > // eoj > > You will receive a confirmation that your subscription has been removed. > To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask]<mailto: > [log in to unmask]> with the following commands in the body of > the email: > > signoff TMSUSERS > > // eoj > > You will receive a confirmation that your subscription has been removed. > To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask]<mailto: > [log in to unmask]> with the following commands in the body of > the email: > > signoff TMSUSERS > > // eoj > > You will receive a confirmation that your subscription has been removed. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the > following commands in the body of the email: > > signoff TMSUSERS > > // eoj > > > You will receive a confirmation that your subscription has been removed. > > ------------------------------ > > End of TMSUSERS Digest - 24 Feb 2015 to 25 Feb 2015 (#2015-33) > ************************************************************** > -- Frances Lloyd-Baynes | Content Database Specialist Minneapolis Institute of Arts 2400 Third Avenue South Minneapolis, MN 55404 612-870-3189 | [log in to unmask] | www.artsmia.org To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the following commands in the body of the email: signoff TMSUSERS // eoj You will receive a confirmation that your subscription has been removed.