On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 4:00 PM, TMSUSERS automatic digest system <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
There are 7 messages totaling 7570 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through constituent
xref (7)
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Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 08:21:53 -0500
From: Wilson Jarred <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through constituent xref
Hi all,
I'm trying to wrap my head around an issue involving constituent xrefs on object records. For sitters of portraits, we have utilized a role called "Sitter" to link a constituent to the object record. We would like to do something similar with people depicted (but who didn't necessarily model or sit for a piece) in a photograph or poster. "Sitter" doesn't seem to work well because, based on the Getty AAT definition<http://www.getty.edu/vow/AATFullDisplay?find=sitter&logic=AND¬e=&page=1&subjectid=300189844>, it relates very specifically to portrait and not to other visual works. I am hesitant to call them the "Subject" because I think that term would get confused with overall subject or genre of a painting (i.e. "allegory").
Has anyone used constituent xrefs in the object record to identify the person depicted in a photograph? If so, what role have you used to do this? If anyone has any insight which they could pass along, I would appreciate it. Thanks in advance!
Sincerely,
Jarred Wilson
Associate Registrar
The John and Mable Ringling Museum of Art
5401 Bay Shore Road
Sarasota, FL 34243
tel. 941-359-5700 x1504
fax 941-359-7716
www.ringling.org<http://www.ringling.org/>
[cid:image002.jpg@01D050D4.1CA94AD0]
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Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 13:26:00 +0000
From: "Meissner, Elizabeth A - (meissner)" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through constituent xref
We use Associated Person.
Betsi Meissner
Registration
Center for Creative Photography
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 25, 2015, at 6:22 AM, Wilson Jarred <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Hi all,
I’m trying to wrap my head around an issue involving constituent xrefs on object records. For sitters of portraits, we have utilized a role called “Sitter” to link a constituent to the object record. We would like to do something similar with people depicted (but who didn’t necessarily model or sit for a piece) in a photograph or poster. “Sitter” doesn’t seem to work well because, based on the Getty AAT definition<http://www.getty.edu/vow/AATFullDisplay?find=sitter&logic=AND¬e=&page=1&subjectid=300189844>, it relates very specifically to portrait and not to other visual works. I am hesitant to call them the “Subject” because I think that term would get confused with overall subject or genre of a painting (i.e. “allegory”).
Has anyone used constituent xrefs in the object record to identify the person depicted in a photograph? If so, what role have you used to do this? If anyone has any insight which they could pass along, I would appreciate it. Thanks in advance!
Sincerely,
Jarred Wilson
Associate Registrar
The John and Mable Ringling Museum of Art
5401 Bay Shore Road
Sarasota, FL 34243
tel. 941-359-5700 x1504
fax 941-359-7716
www.ringling.org<http://www.ringling.org/>
<image002.jpg>
To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> with the following commands in the body of the email:
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 15:01:19 +0000
From: "Morgan, Amber" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through constituent xref
We have two roles that fall into this category, "subject depicted/about" and "subject associated." I'm not a huge fan of either but that's what we are using (for now). Personally I think it's unclear what the difference is between the two or how they are supposed to be used.
We also make use of the suffix field. The subject of a portrait would have a role of "subject depicted/about" with a suffix of "depicted." The suffix is what most people will see, so even though the roles are a little vague, the suffix clarifies it. I'm not saying this is the best way of doing this, but we've been going with this and it's worked out for the most part. I'd be really interested to see what terms other museums are using for the role for depicted constituents.
[cid:image001.png@01D050E1.BED18450]
Best regards,
Amber
the warhol:
Amber E. Morgan
Collections Manager
117 Sandusky Street
Pittsburgh, PA 15212
T 412.237.8306
F 412.237.8340
E [log in to unmask]
W www.warhol.org<http://www.warhol.org/>
The Andy Warhol Museum
One of the four Carnegie Museums of Pittsburgh
Email newsletter http://members.carnegiemuseums.org/email
Membership http://members.carnegiemuseums.org/SupportCMP
warhol: facebook<http://www.facebook.com/thewarholmuseum> | warhol: twitter<http://www.twitter.com/thewarholmuseum>
From: The Museum System (TMS) Users [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Meissner, Elizabeth A - (meissner)
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 8:26 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through constituent xref
We use Associated Person.
Betsi Meissner
Registration
Center for Creative Photography
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 25, 2015, at 6:22 AM, Wilson Jarred <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Hi all,
I'm trying to wrap my head around an issue involving constituent xrefs on object records. For sitters of portraits, we have utilized a role called "Sitter" to link a constituent to the object record. We would like to do something similar with people depicted (but who didn't necessarily model or sit for a piece) in a photograph or poster. "Sitter" doesn't seem to work well because, based on the Getty AAT definition<http://www.getty.edu/vow/AATFullDisplay?find=sitter&logic=AND¬e=&page=1&subjectid=300189844>, it relates very specifically to portrait and not to other visual works. I am hesitant to call them the "Subject" because I think that term would get confused with overall subject or genre of a painting (i.e. "allegory").
Has anyone used constituent xrefs in the object record to identify the person depicted in a photograph? If so, what role have you used to do this? If anyone has any insight which they could pass along, I would appreciate it. Thanks in advance!
Sincerely,
Jarred Wilson
Associate Registrar
The John and Mable Ringling Museum of Art
5401 Bay Shore Road
Sarasota, FL 34243
tel. 941-359-5700 x1504
fax 941-359-7716
www.ringling.org<http://www.ringling.org/>
<image002.jpg>
To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> with the following commands in the body of the email:
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The information contained in this message and/or attachments is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any system and destroy any copies. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender.
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 16:09:33 +0000
From: Gabriela Zoller <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through constituent xref
We use depicts (object - person/place) and depicted in (person/place - object)
Best,
Gabriela
Gabriela Zoller
Acting Head of Research Resources / Art Collection Cataloger
Department of Research Resources
Albright-Knox Art Gallery
1285 Elmwood Avenue
Buffalo, New York 14222
716.270.8277 (ph)
[log in to unmask]
From: The Museum System (TMS) Users [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Wilson Jarred
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 8:22 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through constituent xref
Hi all,
I'm trying to wrap my head around an issue involving constituent xrefs on object records. For sitters of portraits, we have utilized a role called "Sitter" to link a constituent to the object record. We would like to do something similar with people depicted (but who didn't necessarily model or sit for a piece) in a photograph or poster. "Sitter" doesn't seem to work well because, based on the Getty AAT definition<http://www.getty.edu/vow/AATFullDisplay?find=sitter&logic=AND¬e=&page=1&subjectid=300189844>, it relates very specifically to portrait and not to other visual works. I am hesitant to call them the "Subject" because I think that term would get confused with overall subject or genre of a painting (i.e. "allegory").
Has anyone used constituent xrefs in the object record to identify the person depicted in a photograph? If so, what role have you used to do this? If anyone has any insight which they could pass along, I would appreciate it. Thanks in advance!
Sincerely,
Jarred Wilson
Associate Registrar
The John and Mable Ringling Museum of Art
5401 Bay Shore Road
Sarasota, FL 34243
tel. 941-359-5700 x1504
fax 941-359-7716
www.ringling.org<http://www.ringling.org/>
[TheRingling_iconsTOP_fsu]
To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> with the following commands in the body of the email:
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// eoj
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 16:40:06 +0000
From: "Timko, Merrianne" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through constituent xref
Some works (e.g., photographs) in our collection include ten or more "identified" individuals. Other works may be associated with an individual (e.g., a silver piece presented to an historical figure).
We are temporarily "parking" information in two flex fields, pending future development of subject cataloguing. These fields are:
Associated with
Person depicted
Merrianne Timko
Data Standards Manager
The Museum of Fine Arts, Houston
PO Box 6826 Houston, Texas 77265-6826
713.353.1523 Office
From: The Museum System (TMS) Users [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Gabriela Zoller
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 10:10 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through constituent xref
We use depicts (object - person/place) and depicted in (person/place - object)
Best,
Gabriela
Gabriela Zoller
Acting Head of Research Resources / Art Collection Cataloger
Department of Research Resources
Albright-Knox Art Gallery
1285 Elmwood Avenue
Buffalo, New York 14222
716.270.8277 (ph)
[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
From: The Museum System (TMS) Users [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Wilson Jarred
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 8:22 AM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through constituent xref
Hi all,
I'm trying to wrap my head around an issue involving constituent xrefs on object records. For sitters of portraits, we have utilized a role called "Sitter" to link a constituent to the object record. We would like to do something similar with people depicted (but who didn't necessarily model or sit for a piece) in a photograph or poster. "Sitter" doesn't seem to work well because, based on the Getty AAT definition<http://www.getty.edu/vow/AATFullDisplay?find=sitter&logic=AND¬e=&page=1&subjectid=300189844>, it relates very specifically to portrait and not to other visual works. I am hesitant to call them the "Subject" because I think that term would get confused with overall subject or genre of a painting (i.e. "allegory").
Has anyone used constituent xrefs in the object record to identify the person depicted in a photograph? If so, what role have you used to do this? If anyone has any insight which they could pass along, I would appreciate it. Thanks in advance!
Sincerely,
Jarred Wilson
Associate Registrar
The John and Mable Ringling Museum of Art
5401 Bay Shore Road
Sarasota, FL 34243
tel. 941-359-5700 x1504
fax 941-359-7716
www.ringling.org<http://www.ringling.org/>
[TheRingling_iconsTOP_fsu]
To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> with the following commands in the body of the email:
signoff TMSUSERS
// eoj
You will receive a confirmation that your subscription has been removed.
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 19:13:28 +0000
From: Van Hassel Dieter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through constituent xref
We use a ConXref role "Depicted" for this. It works quite well, as some of our depicted constituents are actually donors of objects, etc.
Similar, we have a Geography Xref "Place depicted", linked to our Geographical Thesaurus.
Best regards,
Dieter
Dieter Van Hassel
Archives & Collection Management
Royal Museum for Central Africa
3080 Tervuren
Belgium
http://www.africamuseum.be
________________________________
From: The Museum System (TMS) Users [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Morgan, Amber [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 4:07 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through constituent xref
We have two roles that fall into this category, “subject depicted/about” and “subject associated.” I’m not a huge fan of either but that’s what we are using (for now). Personally I think it’s unclear what the difference is between the two or how they are supposed to be used.
We also make use of the suffix field. The subject of a portrait would have a role of “subject depicted/about” with a suffix of “depicted.” The suffix is what most people will see, so even though the roles are a little vague, the suffix clarifies it. I’m not saying this is the best way of doing this, but we’ve been going with this and it’s worked out for the most part. I’d be really interested to see what terms other museums are using for the role for depicted constituents.
[cid:image001.png@01D050E1.BED18450]
Best regards,
Amber
the warhol:
Amber E. Morgan
Collections Manager
117 Sandusky Street
Pittsburgh, PA 15212
T 412.237.8306
F 412.237.8340
E [log in to unmask]
W www.warhol.org<http://www.warhol.org/>
The Andy Warhol Museum
One of the four Carnegie Museums of Pittsburgh
Email newsletter http://members.carnegiemuseums.org/email
Membership http://members.carnegiemuseums.org/SupportCMP
warhol: facebook<http://www.facebook.com/thewarholmuseum> | warhol: twitter<http://www.twitter.com/thewarholmuseum>
From: The Museum System (TMS) Users [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Meissner, Elizabeth A - (meissner)
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 8:26 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through constituent xref
We use Associated Person.
Betsi Meissner
Registration
Center for Creative Photography
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 25, 2015, at 6:22 AM, Wilson Jarred <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Hi all,
I’m trying to wrap my head around an issue involving constituent xrefs on object records. For sitters of portraits, we have utilized a role called “Sitter” to link a constituent to the object record. We would like to do something similar with people depicted (but who didn’t necessarily model or sit for a piece) in a photograph or poster. “Sitter” doesn’t seem to work well because, based on the Getty AAT definition<http://www.getty.edu/vow/AATFullDisplay?find=sitter&logic=AND¬e=&page=1&subjectid=300189844>, it relates very specifically to portrait and not to other visual works. I am hesitant to call them the “Subject” because I think that term would get confused with overall subject or genre of a painting (i.e. “allegory”).
Has anyone used constituent xrefs in the object record to identify the person depicted in a photograph? If so, what role have you used to do this? If anyone has any insight which they could pass along, I would appreciate it. Thanks in advance!
Sincerely,
Jarred Wilson
Associate Registrar
The John and Mable Ringling Museum of Art
5401 Bay Shore Road
Sarasota, FL 34243
tel. 941-359-5700 x1504
fax 941-359-7716
www.ringling.org<http://www.ringling.org/>
<image002.jpg>
To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> with the following commands in the body of the email:
signoff TMSUSERS
// eoj
You will receive a confirmation that your subscription has been removed.
To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> with the following commands in the body of the email:
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The information contained in this message and/or attachments is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any system and destroy any copies. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender. To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> with the following commands in the body of the email:
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 20:14:19 +0000
From: "Garton, Susan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through constituent xref
Here at the Smithsonian National Portrait Gallery, we use the role "Sitter" for any person depicted in an artwork. If an associated person is not actually depicted (e.g. Abraham Lincoln's autograph), we use the role "Associated Person". The NPG London seems to use only the roles "Sitter" and "Artist" too.
Sue Garton
Data Administrator
National Portrait Gallery
(202) 633-8554 | [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
From: The Museum System (TMS) Users [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Timko, Merrianne
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 11:40 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through constituent xref
Some works (e.g., photographs) in our collection include ten or more "identified" individuals. Other works may be associated with an individual (e.g., a silver piece presented to an historical figure).
We are temporarily "parking" information in two flex fields, pending future development of subject cataloguing. These fields are:
Associated with
Person depicted
Merrianne Timko
Data Standards Manager
The Museum of Fine Arts, Houston
PO Box 6826 Houston, Texas 77265-6826
713.353.1523 Office
From: The Museum System (TMS) Users [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Gabriela Zoller
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 10:10 AM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through constituent xref
We use depicts (object - person/place) and depicted in (person/place - object)
Best,
Gabriela
Gabriela Zoller
Acting Head of Research Resources / Art Collection Cataloger
Department of Research Resources
Albright-Knox Art Gallery
1285 Elmwood Avenue
Buffalo, New York 14222
716.270.8277 (ph)
[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
From: The Museum System (TMS) Users [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Wilson Jarred
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 8:22 AM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through constituent xref
Hi all,
I'm trying to wrap my head around an issue involving constituent xrefs on object records. For sitters of portraits, we have utilized a role called "Sitter" to link a constituent to the object record. We would like to do something similar with people depicted (but who didn't necessarily model or sit for a piece) in a photograph or poster. "Sitter" doesn't seem to work well because, based on the Getty AAT definition<http://www.getty.edu/vow/AATFullDisplay?find=sitter&logic=AND¬e=&page=1&subjectid=300189844>, it relates very specifically to portrait and not to other visual works. I am hesitant to call them the "Subject" because I think that term would get confused with overall subject or genre of a painting (i.e. "allegory").
Has anyone used constituent xrefs in the object record to identify the person depicted in a photograph? If so, what role have you used to do this? If anyone has any insight which they could pass along, I would appreciate it. Thanks in advance!
Sincerely,
Jarred Wilson
Associate Registrar
The John and Mable Ringling Museum of Art
5401 Bay Shore Road
Sarasota, FL 34243
tel. 941-359-5700 x1504
fax 941-359-7716
www.ringling.org<http://www.ringling.org/>
[TheRingling_iconsTOP_fsu]
To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> with the following commands in the body of the email:
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------------------------------
End of TMSUSERS Digest - 24 Feb 2015 to 25 Feb 2015 (#2015-33)
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Frances Lloyd-Baynes | Content Database Specialist
Minneapolis Institute of Arts
2400 Third Avenue South
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Minneapolis Institute of Arts
2400 Third Avenue South
Minneapolis, MN 55404
612-870-3189 | [log in to unmask] | www.artsmia.org