"50+ options for geography types" is a lot! Here at the ROM our collections, and cataloguers, cover the worlds of Natural History and Art & Culture, so we try to hammer out an agreement before adding a new type. What would really be desirable from GS would be that instead of a Geography Assistant we had a Geography Module that worked as well as the Constituents module. Our NH people are already using the Site Module to contain Object Geography and we in Art & Culture may start doing the same, at least for excavated material. In the meantime we may use some of the Flex fields in TMS2018 to create a prefix and suffix for the entry, to work like the Constituents fields do, to create entries like Geography Type "Origin", Flexfield prefix of "allegedly from" and location data as entered.
Robert B. J. Mason D.Phil (Oxon)
Royal Ontario Museum | Art and Culture
100 Queen's Park, Toronto , ON Canada M5S 2C6
Associate Professor | Near & Middle Eastern Civilisations
University of Toronto | 4 Bancroft Avenue, Toronto, ON M5S 1C1
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From: The Museum System (TMS) Users <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Sarah J. Biggs <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: 21 March 2019 10:20:35
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Question about Geography Type
Hi all,
I was just going to make a similar point, but I think Rupert has put it better than I could have. We have recently significantly over-hauled our geography terms and definitions, and it was a tricky balance between making sure that our curatorial departments could convey the information they needed to without having a massively long list of options.
That was the situation we found ourselves in previously, where we had 50+ options for geography types, and as Rupert points out, we reached a point of diminishing returns, as people were unsure of what the varying definitions were, terms only used once or twice, new things being added all the time, etc. What we have done now is create a relatively short and restricted geography type list, with definitions that all the curatorial departments have agreed to; this list of geography types and their definitions has been included as one of our plug-ins for handy cataloguing reference.
Do let me know if you’d like any more information about this; my colleagues and I have been deep in the geography weeds for months now, so I have quite a lot of opinions on the subject!
All the best,
Sarah
Sarah J Biggs | Collections Cataloguer
Saint Louis Art Museum
1 Fine Arts Drive
St Louis, Missouri
63110
314.655.5374
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From: The Museum System (TMS) Users <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Shepherd, Rupert
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2019 9:12 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Question about Geography Type
Chad, hi! I’d consider it a sustainability issue: how many different, highly granular, Xref types can you realistically maintain – whilst ensuring that each of them is correctly used? After a certain point you hit the law of diminishing returns, and the information that really clarifies the nature of the relationship is probably recorded in free text somewhere.
From the UK perspective, Spectrum always has the concept of ‘related …’, whether, person, place, etc. This would be used to characterise any related place (say), with the option to further define the relationship if need be.
As always, it’s down to site requirements and compromises …
Best wishes
Rupert
Rupert Shepherd, PhD FSA
Collection Information Manager
[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Tel: +44 (0)20 7747 5921
From: The Museum System (TMS) Users [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Chad Petrovay
Sent: 21 March 2019 14:03
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Question about Geography Type
Jeffrey - I'm sorry, I was positing the question to the OP. I agree with your use of a geography display field, because it does everything for geography that attribution does for constituents. I meant "generic label" to be "generic geography type". As in, why make a geography type of "Related geography" instead of the geography type "Place of execution (for preparatory works)"?
On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 9:26 AM Smith, Jeffrey <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Because “labels” which summarize and concatenate data have great value in communicating meaning, especially online. Views aren’t always possible for this purpose. And they allow you to enter clean, searchable data without trying to get around the design limitations of the TMS object geography implementation.
From: The Museum System (TMS) Users <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> On Behalf Of Chad Petrovay
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2019 9:21 AM
To: ListServ tmsusers <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Subject: Re: Question about Geography Type
Why not create a geography type for this specific scenario, instead of a generic label that carries no meaning?
On Tue, Mar 19, 2019, 5:05 PM Smith, Jeffrey <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Great idea to implement a “Display Geography field” – that’s something that should’ve always accompanied the TMS geography xrefs as a display field.
We spell out our variations “Southern”, “or”, possibly” in the relevant field, and link geographic thesaurus terms to each country so records can be searched by keyword, and faceted with discrete values.
From: The Museum System (TMS) Users <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> On Behalf Of Robert Mason
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2019 2:38 PM
To: ListServ tmsusers <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Subject: Re: Question about Geography Type
For the Art & Culture records at the ROM we have a Display Geography field in which we put all of our wobbliness, such as "Textile made in India, dress designed in Paris, made in Hong Kong" or "Allegedly from Shanxi (山西) but probably from Shaanxi (陕西)" and others that the Geography Xrfs just doesn't seem to handle properly yet, and we make the data in Xrfs appear more certain than it really is.
One thing we are working out is how to have objects that have a number of possible origins in Geo Xrfs, for instance an object that is from *somewhere* in the Roman Empire could be from any one of three continents, which may perhaps require a Geography Type of "Multilocation". 😉
Robert B. J. Mason D.Phil (Oxon)
Royal Ontario Museum | Art and Culture
100 Queen's Park, Toronto , ON Canada M5S 2C6
Associate Professor | Near & Middle Eastern Civilisations
University of Toronto | 4 Bancroft Avenue, Toronto, ON M5S 1C1
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From: The Museum System (TMS) Users <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> on behalf of Kelly Flaherty <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Sent: 19 March 2019 13:37:46
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Question about Geography Type
Hi everyone,
I was wondering how other institutions handle describing the geography associated with an object that isn’t quite so straight forward.
For example:
A drawing of three figures that is a study for a lunette that was created for the Detroit Public Library.
The drawing may not have been created in Detroit (we don’t know where it was created). The drawing is not located in Detroit. The drawing does not depict the library or the city of Detroit.
Does anyone use a geography type such as “Associated Place”? Do you just allow the title to be the only reference to the work’s geography? If you do use a geography type for situations like this, do you display this information online?
Thanks!
Kelly
_____________________________________
Kelly Flaherty
Collections Cataloger
Princeton University Art Museum
(609) 258-3483
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Treasures of a Desert Kingdom: The Royal Arts of Jodhpur, India<https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rom.on.ca%2Fen%2Fexhibitions-galleries%2Fexhibitions%2Frajasthan&data=02%7C01%7CTMSUSERS%40SI-LISTSERV.SI.EDU%7Cee8e0373b5ff4cd650ff08d6ae09d47c%7C989b5e2a14e44efe93b78cdd5fc5d11c%7C1%7C0%7C636887754593379682&sdata=6t%2FKfIUwI77Iu3FzzMEd7PUGFKzXxWJJtBML%2FsuUh8I%3D&reserved=0>
COMING SOON
June 1 | In the Age of Rembrandt: Dutch Paintings from the Museum of Fine Arts, Boston<https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rom.on.ca%2Fen%2Fexhibitions-galleries%2Fexhibitions%2Fin-the-age-of-rembrandt-dutch-paintings-from-the-museum-of-fine&data=02%7C01%7CTMSUSERS%40SI-LISTSERV.SI.EDU%7Cee8e0373b5ff4cd650ff08d6ae09d47c%7C989b5e2a14e44efe93b78cdd5fc5d11c%7C1%7C0%7C636887754593379682&sdata=CfUVhZKoydG7hns0sXIK3itR%2FB4nWg6tsbWC1if5T3Q%3D&reserved=0>
July 13 | It's Alive! Classic Horror and Sci-Fi Art from the Kirk Hammett Collection<https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rom.on.ca%2Fen%2Fexhibitions-galleries%2Fexhibitions%2Fits-alive-classic-horror-and-sci-fi-art-from-the-kirk-hammett-0&data=02%7C01%7CTMSUSERS%40SI-LISTSERV.SI.EDU%7Cee8e0373b5ff4cd650ff08d6ae09d47c%7C989b5e2a14e44efe93b78cdd5fc5d11c%7C1%7C0%7C636887754593379682&sdata=dBDmRGaLrNKioSgsvGyc8OBIpbuVmrLz05p%2FbcZVqm0%3D&reserved=0>
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À L’AFFICHE
Le Photographe naturaliste de l’année<https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rom.on.ca%2Ffr%2Fphotographe-naturaliste&data=02%7C01%7CTMSUSERS%40SI-LISTSERV.SI.EDU%7Cee8e0373b5ff4cd650ff08d6ae09d47c%7C989b5e2a14e44efe93b78cdd5fc5d11c%7C1%7C0%7C636887754593379682&sdata=hRDvXMAouf7O7Rd%2BmrD6lP2uX1jQht%2BU302GxQjk8rU%3D&reserved=0>
Zuul : La vie d’un dinosaure cuirassé, commanditaire Sinking Ship Entertainment<https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rom.on.ca%2Ffr%2Fzuul&data=02%7C01%7CTMSUSERS%40SI-LISTSERV.SI.EDU%7Cee8e0373b5ff4cd650ff08d6ae09d47c%7C989b5e2a14e44efe93b78cdd5fc5d11c%7C1%7C0%7C636887754593379682&sdata=v5lBzMp0prlcTq%2Fgbv2dzBSx6DYBV3WcveagAK2yDAE%3D&reserved=0>
Trésors d’un royaume du désert : les arts de la cour de Jodhpur, en Inde<https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rom.on.ca%2Ffr%2Fexpositions-et-galeries%2Fexpositions%2Ftresors-dun-royaume-du-desert-les-arts-de-la-cour-de-jodhpur-0&data=02%7C01%7CTMSUSERS%40SI-LISTSERV.SI.EDU%7Cee8e0373b5ff4cd650ff08d6ae09d47c%7C989b5e2a14e44efe93b78cdd5fc5d11c%7C1%7C0%7C636887754593389692&sdata=hmtP2SIFnevlc4putYlXxWDpiTBqu8qIufSAuBlFTJg%3D&reserved=0>
À L'AFFICHE
1 juin | Au temps de Rembrandt : Les peintures hollandaises du Musée des beaux-arts de Boston<https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rom.on.ca%2Ffr%2Fexpositions-et-galeries%2Fexpositions%2Fau-temps-de-rembrandt-les-peintures-hollandaises-du-musee-des&data=02%7C01%7CTMSUSERS%40SI-LISTSERV.SI.EDU%7Cee8e0373b5ff4cd650ff08d6ae09d47c%7C989b5e2a14e44efe93b78cdd5fc5d11c%7C1%7C0%7C636887754593389692&sdata=UkU0miP0GdQOxY5%2BX7oFnPKeEp6hvy%2B0ZXFwlX6B4aU%3D&reserved=0>
13 juillet | Sauve qui peut! L’art des grands films d’horreur et de science-fiction de la collection de Kirk Hammett<https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rom.on.ca%2Ffr%2Fexpositions-et-galeries%2Fexpositions%2Fsauve-qui-peut-lart-des-grands-films-dhorreur-et-de-science&data=02%7C01%7CTMSUSERS%40SI-LISTSERV.SI.EDU%7Cee8e0373b5ff4cd650ff08d6ae09d47c%7C989b5e2a14e44efe93b78cdd5fc5d11c%7C1%7C0%7C636887754593389692&sdata=pyP7QrDrT%2FYDEFDMnKdAxdZ76JvxvpuplAsIMzl8VZI%3D&reserved=0>
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