Similar to Dieter, we are going with an Object-related Constituent Xref
Role = 'depicted' (just that more general term; it would cover portrait
subjects as well) and an Ex-Collection Constituent Xref Role = 'associated'.
We are using the Geography Xref Types = 'associated' and 'depicted' (as
well as 'origin'), too.
Frances
On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 4:00 PM, TMSUSERS automatic digest system <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> There are 7 messages totaling 7570 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
> 1. identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through
> constituent
> xref (7)
>
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> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 08:21:53 -0500
> From: Wilson Jarred <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through
> constituent xref
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm trying to wrap my head around an issue involving constituent xrefs on
> object records. For sitters of portraits, we have utilized a role called
> "Sitter" to link a constituent to the object record. We would like to do
> something similar with people depicted (but who didn't necessarily model or
> sit for a piece) in a photograph or poster. "Sitter" doesn't seem to work
> well because, based on the Getty AAT definition<
> http://www.getty.edu/vow/AATFullDisplay?find=sitter&logic=AND¬e=&page=1&subjectid=300189844>,
> it relates very specifically to portrait and not to other visual works. I
> am hesitant to call them the "Subject" because I think that term would get
> confused with overall subject or genre of a painting (i.e. "allegory").
>
> Has anyone used constituent xrefs in the object record to identify the
> person depicted in a photograph? If so, what role have you used to do this?
> If anyone has any insight which they could pass along, I would appreciate
> it. Thanks in advance!
>
> Sincerely,
> Jarred Wilson
> Associate Registrar
>
> The John and Mable Ringling Museum of Art
> 5401 Bay Shore Road
> Sarasota, FL 34243
>
> tel. 941-359-5700 x1504
> fax 941-359-7716
> www.ringling.org<http://www.ringling.org/>
>
> [cid:image002.jpg@01D050D4.1CA94AD0]
>
>
> To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the
> following commands in the body of the email:
>
> signoff TMSUSERS
>
> // eoj
>
>
> You will receive a confirmation that your subscription has been removed.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 13:26:00 +0000
> From: "Meissner, Elizabeth A - (meissner)" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through
> constituent xref
>
> We use Associated Person.
>
> Betsi Meissner
> Registration
> Center for Creative Photography
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Feb 25, 2015, at 6:22 AM, Wilson Jarred <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I’m trying to wrap my head around an issue involving constituent xrefs on
> object records. For sitters of portraits, we have utilized a role called
> “Sitter” to link a constituent to the object record. We would like to do
> something similar with people depicted (but who didn’t necessarily model or
> sit for a piece) in a photograph or poster. “Sitter” doesn’t seem to work
> well because, based on the Getty AAT definition<
> http://www.getty.edu/vow/AATFullDisplay?find=sitter&logic=AND¬e=&page=1&subjectid=300189844>,
> it relates very specifically to portrait and not to other visual works. I
> am hesitant to call them the “Subject” because I think that term would get
> confused with overall subject or genre of a painting (i.e. “allegory”).
>
> Has anyone used constituent xrefs in the object record to identify the
> person depicted in a photograph? If so, what role have you used to do this?
> If anyone has any insight which they could pass along, I would appreciate
> it. Thanks in advance!
>
> Sincerely,
> Jarred Wilson
> Associate Registrar
>
> The John and Mable Ringling Museum of Art
> 5401 Bay Shore Road
> Sarasota, FL 34243
>
> tel. 941-359-5700 x1504
> fax 941-359-7716
> www.ringling.org<http://www.ringling.org/>
>
> <image002.jpg>
>
> To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask]<mailto:
> [log in to unmask]> with the following commands in the body of
> the email:
>
> signoff TMSUSERS
>
> // eoj
>
> You will receive a confirmation that your subscription has been removed.
>
> To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the
> following commands in the body of the email:
>
> signoff TMSUSERS
>
> // eoj
>
>
> You will receive a confirmation that your subscription has been removed.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 15:01:19 +0000
> From: "Morgan, Amber" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through
> constituent xref
>
> We have two roles that fall into this category, "subject depicted/about"
> and "subject associated." I'm not a huge fan of either but that's what we
> are using (for now). Personally I think it's unclear what the difference
> is between the two or how they are supposed to be used.
>
> We also make use of the suffix field. The subject of a portrait would
> have a role of "subject depicted/about" with a suffix of "depicted." The
> suffix is what most people will see, so even though the roles are a little
> vague, the suffix clarifies it. I'm not saying this is the best way of
> doing this, but we've been going with this and it's worked out for the most
> part. I'd be really interested to see what terms other museums are using
> for the role for depicted constituents.
>
>
> [cid:image001.png@01D050E1.BED18450]
>
> Best regards,
> Amber
>
>
> the warhol:
> Amber E. Morgan
> Collections Manager
> 117 Sandusky Street
> Pittsburgh, PA 15212
> T 412.237.8306
> F 412.237.8340
> E [log in to unmask]
> W www.warhol.org<http://www.warhol.org/>
> The Andy Warhol Museum
> One of the four Carnegie Museums of Pittsburgh
> Email newsletter http://members.carnegiemuseums.org/email
> Membership http://members.carnegiemuseums.org/SupportCMP
> warhol: facebook<http://www.facebook.com/thewarholmuseum> | warhol:
> twitter<http://www.twitter.com/thewarholmuseum>
>
>
>
> From: The Museum System (TMS) Users [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> On Behalf Of Meissner, Elizabeth A - (meissner)
> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 8:26 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through
> constituent xref
>
> We use Associated Person.
>
> Betsi Meissner
> Registration
> Center for Creative Photography
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Feb 25, 2015, at 6:22 AM, Wilson Jarred <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm trying to wrap my head around an issue involving constituent xrefs on
> object records. For sitters of portraits, we have utilized a role called
> "Sitter" to link a constituent to the object record. We would like to do
> something similar with people depicted (but who didn't necessarily model or
> sit for a piece) in a photograph or poster. "Sitter" doesn't seem to work
> well because, based on the Getty AAT definition<
> http://www.getty.edu/vow/AATFullDisplay?find=sitter&logic=AND¬e=&page=1&subjectid=300189844>,
> it relates very specifically to portrait and not to other visual works. I
> am hesitant to call them the "Subject" because I think that term would get
> confused with overall subject or genre of a painting (i.e. "allegory").
>
> Has anyone used constituent xrefs in the object record to identify the
> person depicted in a photograph? If so, what role have you used to do this?
> If anyone has any insight which they could pass along, I would appreciate
> it. Thanks in advance!
>
> Sincerely,
> Jarred Wilson
> Associate Registrar
>
> The John and Mable Ringling Museum of Art
> 5401 Bay Shore Road
> Sarasota, FL 34243
>
> tel. 941-359-5700 x1504
> fax 941-359-7716
> www.ringling.org<http://www.ringling.org/>
>
> <image002.jpg>
>
> To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask]<mailto:
> [log in to unmask]> with the following commands in the body of
> the email:
>
> signoff TMSUSERS
>
> // eoj
>
> You will receive a confirmation that your subscription has been removed.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask]<mailto:
> [log in to unmask]> with the following commands in the body of
> the email:
>
> signoff TMSUSERS
>
> // eoj
>
> You will receive a confirmation that your subscription has been removed.
>
>
>
> The information contained in this message and/or attachments is intended
> only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain
> confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission,
> dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon,
> this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient
> is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and
> delete the material from any system and destroy any copies. Any views
> expressed in this message are those of the individual sender.
>
> To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the
> following commands in the body of the email:
>
> signoff TMSUSERS
>
> // eoj
>
>
> You will receive a confirmation that your subscription has been removed.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 16:09:33 +0000
> From: Gabriela Zoller <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through
> constituent xref
>
> We use depicts (object - person/place) and depicted in (person/place -
> object)
>
> Best,
> Gabriela
>
> Gabriela Zoller
> Acting Head of Research Resources / Art Collection Cataloger
> Department of Research Resources
> Albright-Knox Art Gallery
> 1285 Elmwood Avenue
> Buffalo, New York 14222
> 716.270.8277 (ph)
> [log in to unmask]
>
> From: The Museum System (TMS) Users [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> On Behalf Of Wilson Jarred
> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 8:22 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through
> constituent xref
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm trying to wrap my head around an issue involving constituent xrefs on
> object records. For sitters of portraits, we have utilized a role called
> "Sitter" to link a constituent to the object record. We would like to do
> something similar with people depicted (but who didn't necessarily model or
> sit for a piece) in a photograph or poster. "Sitter" doesn't seem to work
> well because, based on the Getty AAT definition<
> http://www.getty.edu/vow/AATFullDisplay?find=sitter&logic=AND¬e=&page=1&subjectid=300189844>,
> it relates very specifically to portrait and not to other visual works. I
> am hesitant to call them the "Subject" because I think that term would get
> confused with overall subject or genre of a painting (i.e. "allegory").
>
> Has anyone used constituent xrefs in the object record to identify the
> person depicted in a photograph? If so, what role have you used to do this?
> If anyone has any insight which they could pass along, I would appreciate
> it. Thanks in advance!
>
> Sincerely,
> Jarred Wilson
> Associate Registrar
>
> The John and Mable Ringling Museum of Art
> 5401 Bay Shore Road
> Sarasota, FL 34243
>
> tel. 941-359-5700 x1504
> fax 941-359-7716
> www.ringling.org<http://www.ringling.org/>
>
> [TheRingling_iconsTOP_fsu]
>
> To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask]<mailto:
> [log in to unmask]> with the following commands in the body of
> the email:
>
> signoff TMSUSERS
>
> // eoj
>
> You will receive a confirmation that your subscription has been removed.
>
> To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the
> following commands in the body of the email:
>
> signoff TMSUSERS
>
> // eoj
>
>
> You will receive a confirmation that your subscription has been removed.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 16:40:06 +0000
> From: "Timko, Merrianne" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through
> constituent xref
>
> Some works (e.g., photographs) in our collection include ten or more
> "identified" individuals. Other works may be associated with an individual
> (e.g., a silver piece presented to an historical figure).
>
> We are temporarily "parking" information in two flex fields, pending
> future development of subject cataloguing. These fields are:
>
> Associated with
> Person depicted
>
> Merrianne Timko
> Data Standards Manager
>
> The Museum of Fine Arts, Houston
> PO Box 6826 Houston, Texas 77265-6826
> 713.353.1523 Office
>
>
> From: The Museum System (TMS) Users [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> On Behalf Of Gabriela Zoller
> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 10:10 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through
> constituent xref
>
> We use depicts (object - person/place) and depicted in (person/place -
> object)
>
> Best,
> Gabriela
>
> Gabriela Zoller
> Acting Head of Research Resources / Art Collection Cataloger
> Department of Research Resources
> Albright-Knox Art Gallery
> 1285 Elmwood Avenue
> Buffalo, New York 14222
> 716.270.8277 (ph)
> [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>
> From: The Museum System (TMS) Users [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> On Behalf Of Wilson Jarred
> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 8:22 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through
> constituent xref
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm trying to wrap my head around an issue involving constituent xrefs on
> object records. For sitters of portraits, we have utilized a role called
> "Sitter" to link a constituent to the object record. We would like to do
> something similar with people depicted (but who didn't necessarily model or
> sit for a piece) in a photograph or poster. "Sitter" doesn't seem to work
> well because, based on the Getty AAT definition<
> http://www.getty.edu/vow/AATFullDisplay?find=sitter&logic=AND¬e=&page=1&subjectid=300189844>,
> it relates very specifically to portrait and not to other visual works. I
> am hesitant to call them the "Subject" because I think that term would get
> confused with overall subject or genre of a painting (i.e. "allegory").
>
> Has anyone used constituent xrefs in the object record to identify the
> person depicted in a photograph? If so, what role have you used to do this?
> If anyone has any insight which they could pass along, I would appreciate
> it. Thanks in advance!
>
> Sincerely,
> Jarred Wilson
> Associate Registrar
>
> The John and Mable Ringling Museum of Art
> 5401 Bay Shore Road
> Sarasota, FL 34243
>
> tel. 941-359-5700 x1504
> fax 941-359-7716
> www.ringling.org<http://www.ringling.org/>
>
> [TheRingling_iconsTOP_fsu]
>
> To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask]<mailto:
> [log in to unmask]> with the following commands in the body of
> the email:
>
> signoff TMSUSERS
>
> // eoj
>
> You will receive a confirmation that your subscription has been removed.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask]<mailto:
> [log in to unmask]> with the following commands in the body of
> the email:
>
> signoff TMSUSERS
>
> // eoj
>
> You will receive a confirmation that your subscription has been removed.
>
> To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the
> following commands in the body of the email:
>
> signoff TMSUSERS
>
> // eoj
>
>
> You will receive a confirmation that your subscription has been removed.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 19:13:28 +0000
> From: Van Hassel Dieter <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through
> constituent xref
>
> We use a ConXref role "Depicted" for this. It works quite well, as some
> of our depicted constituents are actually donors of objects, etc.
> Similar, we have a Geography Xref "Place depicted", linked to our
> Geographical Thesaurus.
>
>
> Best regards,
> Dieter
>
>
> Dieter Van Hassel
>
> Archives & Collection Management
> Royal Museum for Central Africa
> 3080 Tervuren
> Belgium
>
> http://www.africamuseum.be
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: The Museum System (TMS) Users [[log in to unmask]] on
> behalf of Morgan, Amber [[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 4:07 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through
> constituent xref
>
> We have two roles that fall into this category, “subject depicted/about”
> and “subject associated.” I’m not a huge fan of either but that’s what we
> are using (for now). Personally I think it’s unclear what the difference
> is between the two or how they are supposed to be used.
>
> We also make use of the suffix field. The subject of a portrait would
> have a role of “subject depicted/about” with a suffix of “depicted.” The
> suffix is what most people will see, so even though the roles are a little
> vague, the suffix clarifies it. I’m not saying this is the best way of
> doing this, but we’ve been going with this and it’s worked out for the most
> part. I’d be really interested to see what terms other museums are using
> for the role for depicted constituents.
>
>
> [cid:image001.png@01D050E1.BED18450]
>
> Best regards,
> Amber
>
>
> the warhol:
> Amber E. Morgan
> Collections Manager
> 117 Sandusky Street
> Pittsburgh, PA 15212
> T 412.237.8306
> F 412.237.8340
> E [log in to unmask]
> W www.warhol.org<http://www.warhol.org/>
> The Andy Warhol Museum
> One of the four Carnegie Museums of Pittsburgh
> Email newsletter http://members.carnegiemuseums.org/email
> Membership http://members.carnegiemuseums.org/SupportCMP
> warhol: facebook<http://www.facebook.com/thewarholmuseum> | warhol:
> twitter<http://www.twitter.com/thewarholmuseum>
>
>
>
> From: The Museum System (TMS) Users [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> On Behalf Of Meissner, Elizabeth A - (meissner)
> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 8:26 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through
> constituent xref
>
> We use Associated Person.
>
> Betsi Meissner
> Registration
> Center for Creative Photography
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Feb 25, 2015, at 6:22 AM, Wilson Jarred <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I’m trying to wrap my head around an issue involving constituent xrefs on
> object records. For sitters of portraits, we have utilized a role called
> “Sitter” to link a constituent to the object record. We would like to do
> something similar with people depicted (but who didn’t necessarily model or
> sit for a piece) in a photograph or poster. “Sitter” doesn’t seem to work
> well because, based on the Getty AAT definition<
> http://www.getty.edu/vow/AATFullDisplay?find=sitter&logic=AND¬e=&page=1&subjectid=300189844>,
> it relates very specifically to portrait and not to other visual works. I
> am hesitant to call them the “Subject” because I think that term would get
> confused with overall subject or genre of a painting (i.e. “allegory”).
>
> Has anyone used constituent xrefs in the object record to identify the
> person depicted in a photograph? If so, what role have you used to do this?
> If anyone has any insight which they could pass along, I would appreciate
> it. Thanks in advance!
>
> Sincerely,
> Jarred Wilson
> Associate Registrar
>
> The John and Mable Ringling Museum of Art
> 5401 Bay Shore Road
> Sarasota, FL 34243
>
> tel. 941-359-5700 x1504
> fax 941-359-7716
> www.ringling.org<http://www.ringling.org/>
>
> <image002.jpg>
>
> To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask]<mailto:
> [log in to unmask]> with the following commands in the body of
> the email:
>
> signoff TMSUSERS
>
> // eoj
>
> You will receive a confirmation that your subscription has been removed.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask]<mailto:
> [log in to unmask]> with the following commands in the body of
> the email:
>
> signoff TMSUSERS
>
> // eoj
>
> You will receive a confirmation that your subscription has been removed.
>
>
>
> The information contained in this message and/or attachments is intended
> only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain
> confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission,
> dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon,
> this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient
> is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and
> delete the material from any system and destroy any copies. Any views
> expressed in this message are those of the individual sender. To
> unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask]<mailto:
> [log in to unmask]> with the following commands in the body of
> the email:
>
> signoff TMSUSERS
>
> // eoj
>
> You will receive a confirmation that your subscription has been removed.
>
> To unsubscribe, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the
> following commands in the body of the email:
>
> signoff TMSUSERS
>
> // eoj
>
>
> You will receive a confirmation that your subscription has been removed.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 20:14:19 +0000
> From: "Garton, Susan" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through
> constituent xref
>
> Here at the Smithsonian National Portrait Gallery, we use the role
> "Sitter" for any person depicted in an artwork. If an associated person is
> not actually depicted (e.g. Abraham Lincoln's autograph), we use the role
> "Associated Person". The NPG London seems to use only the roles "Sitter"
> and "Artist" too.
>
> Sue Garton
> Data Administrator
> National Portrait Gallery
> (202) 633-8554 | [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>
> From: The Museum System (TMS) Users [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> On Behalf Of Timko, Merrianne
> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 11:40 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through
> constituent xref
>
> Some works (e.g., photographs) in our collection include ten or more
> "identified" individuals. Other works may be associated with an individual
> (e.g., a silver piece presented to an historical figure).
>
> We are temporarily "parking" information in two flex fields, pending
> future development of subject cataloguing. These fields are:
>
> Associated with
> Person depicted
>
> Merrianne Timko
> Data Standards Manager
>
> The Museum of Fine Arts, Houston
> PO Box 6826 Houston, Texas 77265-6826
> 713.353.1523 Office
>
>
> From: The Museum System (TMS) Users [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> On Behalf Of Gabriela Zoller
> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 10:10 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through
> constituent xref
>
> We use depicts (object - person/place) and depicted in (person/place -
> object)
>
> Best,
> Gabriela
>
> Gabriela Zoller
> Acting Head of Research Resources / Art Collection Cataloger
> Department of Research Resources
> Albright-Knox Art Gallery
> 1285 Elmwood Avenue
> Buffalo, New York 14222
> 716.270.8277 (ph)
> [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>
> From: The Museum System (TMS) Users [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> On Behalf Of Wilson Jarred
> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 8:22 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: identifying sitter or subject of a painting/portrait through
> constituent xref
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm trying to wrap my head around an issue involving constituent xrefs on
> object records. For sitters of portraits, we have utilized a role called
> "Sitter" to link a constituent to the object record. We would like to do
> something similar with people depicted (but who didn't necessarily model or
> sit for a piece) in a photograph or poster. "Sitter" doesn't seem to work
> well because, based on the Getty AAT definition<
> http://www.getty.edu/vow/AATFullDisplay?find=sitter&logic=AND¬e=&page=1&subjectid=300189844>,
> it relates very specifically to portrait and not to other visual works. I
> am hesitant to call them the "Subject" because I think that term would get
> confused with overall subject or genre of a painting (i.e. "allegory").
>
> Has anyone used constituent xrefs in the object record to identify the
> person depicted in a photograph? If so, what role have you used to do this?
> If anyone has any insight which they could pass along, I would appreciate
> it. Thanks in advance!
>
> Sincerely,
> Jarred Wilson
> Associate Registrar
>
> The John and Mable Ringling Museum of Art
> 5401 Bay Shore Road
> Sarasota, FL 34243
>
> tel. 941-359-5700 x1504
> fax 941-359-7716
> www.ringling.org<http://www.ringling.org/>
>
> [TheRingling_iconsTOP_fsu]
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> End of TMSUSERS Digest - 24 Feb 2015 to 25 Feb 2015 (#2015-33)
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